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Post by bond009 on Mar 11, 2014 21:27:41 GMT -5
Hey TexasRangers, are all Texans such an ass? Now this video makes perfect sense actually
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Post by Apollo_18 on Mar 11, 2014 21:37:22 GMT -5
i'm sorry if this is some kind of violation, but someone's gotta say something...
i'd really be willing to pay good money, if you'd just shut up with this crap.
you're talking out of your ass.....
i know a number of police officers(some of whom are actually friends of mine), and they are all decent people, who think this kind of crap(what we saw in the video) is absolutely unacceptable. they have a very deep respect for the constitution, and take their oath VERY seriously.
SO.....that said, this makes your idiotic proclamation that "all badges are redcoats" completely incorrect. i'm sure i'm not the only one here who knows police officers who are NOT overbearing meathead bullies with badges....this is not to say that ALL police officers are saints either....there are obviously a great many of them who are not fit to wear the uniform, or carry the badge, and they should be purged from the ranks, and replaced with those who can do their job, the way it was meant to be done....
seriously though, could you stop with the hyperbole, and rhetoric?
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Post by specopsgirls on Mar 12, 2014 7:51:40 GMT -5
Congrats, this is the most least thought through post I've seen all day. To be clear, I am not normally a defender of police BUT......
This guy should have just showed his ID, explained the situation and moved on. Had he did, this never would have happened. It looked like this guy was trying to get beat on. Bottom line, this guy is a bone head. At one point, the cops were so fed up, they were trying to make him leave but instead, he argued more!
In my experience, when a cop tells you that you can go, you get out when you can. Its like the other poster was saying, if this guy was such a law expert, he should know that the court is where you fight a ticket, not the side of the road. He should have also realized, that with his attitude, no person, cop or otherwise was going to give him a break. Especially when the tickets were already written. Do you think those cops want to explain to superiors, that the reason they have two tickets missing(they are numbered) from his log was that some arrogant dude on the side of the road outsmarted him? doubt it.
A word of advise to anyone who wants to "exercise their rights" a lot of cops don't know the law as well as they should and get mad when you call them out on it. You see all the time instances where things go wrong with cops that were avoidable. They have their power and they like it. don't test it, or they might go outside the law to mess with you. There's a good chance they get away with it. they might even get a paid leave vacation out of it. they know this and so do you.
Pick your spots people. Right and wrong does not matter a whole lot when your in handcuffs with black eyes and broken ribs.
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Post by networksolutions on Mar 12, 2014 8:05:00 GMT -5
I did watch the video. Did you notice that the guy who was stopped did intentionally try to flaunt his rights to the cops?
Imagine this, two cops spent the morning chasing a meth head who stole some power tools from the Home Depot, had to chase him on foot, and get scraped up, then spent the afternoon responding to a call where a guy blew his brains out and they had to be first on the scene. Kind of an Ef'ed up day to start with. For anyone. They they meet this guy who they stopped to check to see if he needed any help. And he is a cop hater who is very well aware of his rights. HE decides to act like a self riotous dick even though he is within his rights to do so. Now the cops can handle the situation any way they want, they have the guns and badges. But thinking about the previous possibilities of their day, isn't' it slightly possible to give them the benefit of the doubt and cut them a tiny bit of slack?
And yes, there are good cops, just as there are bad ones. I agree that the "thin blue line" that protects the bad ones should be erased, but most likely will not be. I am stating a fact though. If you act professional, civilized, and respectful to the police, USUALLY they will reciprocate. They are, after all, people behind that badge. I have gotten by for 45 years with this philosophy and it's worked nicely.
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Post by nsaangrybird on Mar 12, 2014 8:21:39 GMT -5
when the officers pulled up behind them, and asked if there was anything wrong, the guy politely said no,, and gave the reason, that his wife had been driving for hours and was tired, and they were switching drivers...both officers looked inside the car, nothing was suspicious, or indicated that any type of offence took place....my question for you is....why wouldn't the officers say "OK, we were just checking if everything was ok, you can go on your way"?.... I know we are not in a "Andy Griffith, Mayberry, RFD" type of world....but it appears that these LEO's automatically assumed that this guy was lying, was dangerous and/or a criminal.
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Post by purplehazeleyes on Mar 12, 2014 10:30:03 GMT -5
I don't think they assumed he was dangerous, more than likely they would have done more had that been their assumption. I think they simply did not like that he was uncowed by their authority. The lead officer kept prompting him to acknowledge him as an authority and he kept refusing. It was a very clear cut incident of someone drunk with authority. The defenders on here continually act as though we should just be thankful a cop doesn't crack our skulls and then arrest us. Not sure when or why police developed the attitude that we need to treat them like drill sergeants and we should act like incompetent, intimidated privates in their presence. I really admire the citizens handling of the officers in this video, the officers really come off as ignorant buffoons.
I'd love to hear a cop say sorry sometime. We teach our kids to do it, we apologize to our spouses, friends and family. Doesn't make you less of a man. Why can't a cop apologize? Sorry, I was wrong, have a nice day.
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Post by johnnyrockers on Mar 12, 2014 10:40:32 GMT -5
I don't think they assumed he was dangerous, more than likely they would have done more had that been their assumption. I think they simply did not like that he was uncowed by their authority. The lead officer kept prompting him to acknowledge him as an authority and he kept refusing. It was a very clear cut incident of someone drunk with authority. The defenders on here continually act as though we should just be thankful a cop doesn't crack our skulls and then arrest us. Not sure when or why police developed the attitude that we need to treat them like drill sergeants and we should act like incompetent, intimidated privates in their presence. I really admire the citizens handling of the officers in this video, the officers really come off as ignorant buffoons. I'd love to hear a cop say sorry sometime. We teach our kids to do it, we apologize to our spouses, friends and family. Doesn't make you less of a man. Why can't a cop apologize? Sorry, I was wrong, have a nice day. You pretty much nailed it there! The ignorant, arrogant attitude that says (sometimes literally) I can take you to jail for any reason I can think up. As to your last paragraph, I have had officers apologize---on two separate occasions I've been stopped unlawfully for seat belt violation only to have the officer apologize when he actually took time to read the law he was attempting to enforce and realized that it did not apply to my vehicle. Twice I've gotten, "Sorry to have inconvenienced you, M'am, you have a good day." So there are a few out there who still possess a brain and synapses that connect but the majority are roid-driven, power-hungry imbeciles who want to cart old grannies and grandpas off to jail if they show "attitude." My signature is my motto. These people are public servants who are seeking to be our Masters and that's way off base and MUST be stopped.
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Post by flipthecoin on Mar 12, 2014 10:57:51 GMT -5
No. The police shouldn't be taking an approach of doing whatever they want and only stopping when someone asserts their rights. That practice shows a complete lack of respect to the concept of rights. It's done because it will occasionally find something interesting to the police but it should not be the standard. Those who enforce the laws shouldn't be stretching/breaking the laws themselves as a routine matter. There are no good cops. The cops that actually try and work within the system to curtail abuse, or come to a suspects defense when he's being beaten are driven out of the force. They get no opportunity to change things, and their careers are destroyed. By it's very nature the good cops are driven out of the force which leaves only the bad ones (and yes, ambivalent cops are bad). He was under no legal compulsion to identify himself at that point. He wasn't operating a vehicle and he wasn't in an area where you have to identify unless under arrest. Really? I would say that that's when it matters the most. Cameras are a direct response to things being as bad as people claim. Have you noticed that dash cams are getting more and more common among the populace? This is to protect the individual from the police. Here's the problem. It's political suicide to be labeled soft on crime, that's why we keep expanding police powers, letting them get away with more and more. We make sentencing harder, turned the concept of probation into a joke, quota's on keeping prisons full, and so on. All because no one has the courage to stand up and say they're going to cease being as draconian as possible towards criminals. The people go along with it because we've gotten this safety>freedom mentality in our heads since 9/11. It isn't working, but politics don't allow for a change.
On top of that, just getting involved in government does nothing, to actually fix this you need to get into a position of being a rep, or a governor, or a mayor, and then start passing laws. That's not easy to do, and it requires a ton of money to bankroll a campaign. Voting has let us down. There are no real viable choices because 90% of the voting population is stuck in the R vs D dilemma.
The cops and the prosecutor in that video both said the way the system should work, is not how it does work and the guy should just accept that. Sadly it's true... a large part of me believes that the population in general does not want the system as written, so we're getting a corruption of that, which is exactly what those people are asking for.
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Post by redsoxfan on Mar 12, 2014 11:13:00 GMT -5
Thank you for the education. I respect your posts and the knowledge you bring. Keep bringing it, because people need to be confronted with it.
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TheMarkFrost
Administrator
Uncovering The Inconvenient Truth
Posts: 241
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Post by TheMarkFrost on Mar 12, 2014 11:18:18 GMT -5
You have a safety hazard since the vehicle is stopped and partially sitting in the travel lane. Safety would dictate the officers stay close to prevent an accident from occurring until the vehicle gets going. Secondly, the officers can fall in behind the vehicle to ensure they make it into the travel lane safely without having to worry about moving vehicles and how fast they might be going.
Yes the guy gave a reason as to what was going on. However, and again based on my experience and training, sometimes not all is as it should be.
Other possibilities that would extend officer presence:
* - Are the people in the vehicle ok? (medical issue / drunk) that they don't want the officer to know about. I have had that with medical issues before. Their viewpoint is the medical condition is none of my business, and to a very large extent they are correct. Ketoacidosis is a medical condition that mimics the effects of alcohol intoxication, from inability to focus /multi task, slurred speech, glazed over eyes etc...
With that being said I have seen people speak normally and stand normally with a BAC in excess of 0.4 (legal limit is 0.08). The field sobriety tests are designed to reveal that.
* - What if injuries were caused by the male? Domestic violence situation? * - Did she kidnap him? * - Kidnapping? - Just because cops are present does not mean a person being held against their will is going to scream at the first moment, especially if another person's life who is not present depends on the person keeping quiet. * - Stranded motorist - just because help is on the way does not mean the officer cannot sit there with them until help arrives. Ive done that to assist the tow truck / people helping to make sure the people are not left stranded on a road in a state / city they are not from in the dark. I also have waited to give the people in the car piece of mind that an officer is close and that they are not alone.
* - Drug transport? * - Casing the area for quit hits (stealing)? * - Stolen car? )Just because a plate is run does not mean a stolen vehicle is going to return on the hit (Agency must enter it into the system). * - Does the driver have a valid driving status? * - does the driver have warrants? * - Did the people in the car just kill someone else? * - Road Rage? * - Road rage resulting in an accident who then fled the scene (Not all law enforcement agencies monitor each others traffic. generally if an accident occurs out in the county, state police usually work the call instead of the sheriffs office (in general). * - Ambush of a car that has not passed yet? * - Ambush of a vehicle that fled the scene (mutual violence / settling a score etc). * - Ambush of Law Enforcement (night time / side of the road / people in the vehicle). * - Also, just because there are people in the car, and those people say its just them, does not mean there is no one else around the area that might be involved / present a danger.
The term is situational awareness.
I can keep going but you get the idea. My guess for the extended presence was the behavior of the driver. As I stated im all for citizens knowing the law and how it works. In this case the drivers actions / comments do raise an eyebrow. Granted most people don't want contact with the police, but in this guys case not only does he not want contact and for the police to leave, he continues to remain on scene to argue with the police.
People will always be somewhat nervous when dealing with police. His actions / comments / demeanor could be considered unusual (unusual does not mean illegal, but it does make a person look hard and the entire situation, as we saw when the second officer went to the far side of the vehicle).
Here is a big one and I will preface my comment with this - Not all people who don't like the government are sovereign citizens and not all sovereign citizens go looking for forced contact / wanting to start an altercation with police.
There are examples, just as people in here use the reverse for officers, of people intentionally behaving in a manner to illicit a police response in a sole effort to kill them / settle a score. There is also the possibility of one of the officers specifically being targeted for whatever reason. People have gone after police using friends / family the officer does not know to settle scores etc.
I am not saying these people are any of the things above. However, we still go thru the checklist to satisfy our curiosity that the reasons given for the people being present are in fact true. There are cases where officers check out and head out, only to find out later the person they had contact with was wanted / kidnapped a child / killed someone etc. Failure to ask the questions go thru the checklist can result in an officer doubting himself / being distraught and not talking about, which then places everyone in danger. The question becomes - Why didn't I ask this or request that. Did my failure to go thru the checklist directly contribute to an extremely disturbing resulting in someone's death?
People who had bad experiences with the police are on guard when in contact with the police. Police are on guard when in contact with the citizens.
its no reason to treat a citizen like crap, and at the same time the uniform does not mean a person can treat law enforcement like crap from the outset. It serves no purpose and creates issues.
Anyway.. Hope this answer / info gives people an idea of why police act in the manner they do (and sorry for the long response).
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