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Post by spygirl on Apr 6, 2015 14:28:20 GMT -5
Ignoring the obvious mistranslation of St. Jerome's 4th and 5th century conversions of the Vetus Latina and the Hebrew Bible and the subsequent misuses by Milton and Aligiehri the knowledgeable person will conclude that the word Lucifer does not refer to Satan but the planet Venus. All regular Masons are required to have a belief in a Supreme Being, i.e. God, and the planet Venus, whom the Romans refered to as Lucifer, certainly does not qualify. Neither does Satan, who besides being a purely Christian concept, cannot, in the historical context, be considered a 'Supreme Being'. The historical Satan of Christian mythos was created by God and is therefore subordinate to God and defacto, not 'Supreme'. Letting common sense prevail the intelligent contemplator of this topic would realize that there can only be one Supreme Being if one deigns to believe in such; only one ominscient, ominpotent and omnipresent creator of the Universe. To imply that Satan (Lucifer) is somehow on par with God is to argue that God is neither all-powerful nor supreme. This would imply a situation where God is neither omnipotent nor unique and not worthy of the respect and adoration due to God by every Mason. It therefore becomes quite obvious why any Mason obligated to believe in God would not and could not call God by the name Lucifer or Satan. Your OP was a great read. I was labouring under the silly impression some lodges were worshipping Baphomet or sexual concepts related to him (Hieros Gamos) or something. I should read less Dan Brown... Thanks for the clarification.
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Post by redsoxfan on Apr 6, 2015 14:40:20 GMT -5
that is interesting isnt it?
it is possible that it did exist before any christian religion was made, but the way christians make it out to be could be wrong, maybe, the god they think they worship is the devil, but through writing the devil tricked people to believe he is god, and made them think there is this devil that wants to make everybody to not believe in him, who tells people he is god, but is satan, and so when people here this, they have nothing else to think but to believe in him...
because maybe even the devil, thinks that he is god, or he wants to be god, so he has to get everybody else to believe he is god. because he wants to overthrow the real god, and if he has all believeing he is god, and no body believes in the true god, he thinks he could overpower him, but of course that would be useless because GOD is the creator of all,,, yes?.. and so that is where the devil fails haha..
but i am just putting my own thoughts out there, and some of this i have gained from hearing another speak about it and told me stories and what not... but im not trying to say anybody is wrong, or right, im not saying im right either, just putting my own thoughts out there
but with writting .. i have been told that words, and letters, were created by the devil.. and in reality(that is who is to say what reality is) but in reality, words, and writting, is not even real, but for all of mankind we have been tricked by many of writtings and words.. because that is what the devil has created, to trick mankind and i believe all other kinds of species that are in the universe, if you also believe in that..
but i believe the true way to god, is not through what you read, or what you say, its through how you feel, and the positive feeling and love.. you have to love in order to know god, because in order to tell yourself who you think the real god is, all you have to do is love him, whatever you believe he is, and in doing that he loves you back...... thats the problem with the devil tricking us in thinking hes god... when some try to love hiim,, he does not love back... he just wants to be worshipped and believed in.. not loved...
but you can disagree with anything i say.. thats fine.. but i just want an agreement on the way to god is in loving him.. and trusting him.. even though we might not fully understand, we still must love and trust him.... yes??
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Post by worldmaster on Apr 8, 2015 15:49:42 GMT -5
The concept of Satan pre-dates Christianity to Judaism. We see in the Book of Genesis where Jacob wrestles with an Angel - The Jewish explanation is that Jacob was wrestling with Satan. The concept of Satan is much older than Christianity.
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Post by pimpsmackyou on Apr 8, 2015 16:04:07 GMT -5
Lucifer is known to as "The light bearer" in freemasonry.
Masons say they offer new candidates "the light". The light they are actually giving is: Lucifer. The Christian Bible says that Satan walks to and fro on this earth masquerading as an "angel of light", that many might be deceived.
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Post by crimsontide on Apr 8, 2015 16:36:24 GMT -5
I bring it up because I experienced it first hand, and there is a possibility that SOME masons do worship Lucifer, Satan, ( the name doesn't matter, their actions do ). I wasn't trying to offend you, just putting another perspective here.
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Post by sexykillergirl on Apr 8, 2015 16:42:50 GMT -5
From a Latin Proverb: Honores mutant mores. Translation: "Honor changes behavior"
Thanks for the thread and for taking the time to offer what few could communicate in such a brief, but such concise manner. Truly refreshing to come across. Thanks again.
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Post by bridezilla on Apr 9, 2015 2:26:26 GMT -5
i have also hear that the devil, or lucifer, or whatever.. his name that god calls him is , the light of the world, and so that could be why many call him the light barrier, or light holder, or whatever haha.
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Post by augustusmasonicus on Apr 9, 2015 2:36:00 GMT -5
that is interesting isnt it? it is possible that it did exist before any christian religion was made, but the way christians make it out to be could be wrong, maybe, the god they think they worship is the devil, but through writing the devil tricked people to believe he is god, and made them think there is this devil that wants to make everybody to not believe in him, who tells people he is god, but is satan, and so when people here this, they have nothing else to think but to believe in him... because maybe even the devil, thinks that he is god, or he wants to be god, so he has to get everybody else to believe he is god. because he wants to overthrow the real god, and if he has all believeing he is god, and no body believes in the true god, he thinks he could overpower him, but of course that would be useless because GOD is the creator of all,,, yes?.. and so that is where the devil fails haha.. but i am just putting my own thoughts out there, and some of this i have gained from hearing another speak about it and told me stories and what not... but im not trying to say anybody is wrong, or right, im not saying im right either, just putting my own thoughts out there but with writting .. i have been told that words, and letters, were created by the devil.. and in reality(that is who is to say what reality is) but in reality, words, and writting, is not even real, but for all of mankind we have been tricked by many of writtings and words.. because that is what the devil has created, to trick mankind and i believe all other kinds of species that are in the universe, if you also believe in that.. but i believe the true way to god, is not through what you read, or what you say, its through how you feel, and the positive feeling and love.. you have to love in order to know god, because in order to tell yourself who you think the real god is, all you have to do is love him, whatever you believe he is, and in doing that he loves you back...... thats the problem with the devil tricking us in thinking hes god... when some try to love hiim,, he does not love back... he just wants to be worshipped and believed in.. not loved... but you can disagree with anything i say.. thats fine.. but i just want an agreement on the way to god is in loving him.. and trusting him.. even though we might not fully understand, we still must love and trust him.... yes?? I disagree with all of your post execpt this, which we are in agreement on.
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Post by Olivia on Apr 9, 2015 2:45:05 GMT -5
The concept of Satan pre-dates Christianity to Judaism. We see in the Book of Genesis where Jacob wrestles with an Angel - The Jewish explanation is that Jacob was wrestling with Satan. The concept of Satan is much older than Christianity. The concept of a ruler of Hell (Satan) does not exsit in the Hebrew Bible. Please show me in the original Hebrew where the Jews had a concept of Satan. Please do not confuse Hebrew ha-satan with the Christian Satan. They two are not even remotely similar.
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Post by augustusmasonicus on Apr 9, 2015 17:08:10 GMT -5
Lucifer is known to as "The light bearer" in freemasonry. Masons say they offer new candidates "the light". The light they are actually giving is: Lucifer. The Christian Bible says that Satan walks to and fro on this earth masquerading as an "angel of light", that many might be deceived. A random post on an internet forum is not a source. You will find no mention of Lucifer in Masonic ritual so the premise is erroneous.
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