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Post by specopsgirls on Mar 18, 2014 22:01:57 GMT -5
I think you may have it backwards my friend. The Aryans who invaded Northern India thousands of years ago were likely the children of Abraham and Keturah his concubine after Sarah's passing. to quote the OT " Genesis 25:6: And to the sons of Abraham's concubines, Abraham gave gifts, and he sent them away from his son Isaac while he [Abraham] was still alive, eastward to the land of the East." Look at the religion of the Vedics and the Zoroastrians (from 2000 bc). And look at the Summerian religion which (from 4000 bc) Then look at the fact that the story of Abraham wasn't written until around the year 500 BC and that Judaism was built upon that story. The similarities of the Jewish faith can be seen evolving from the Vedics and the Zoroastrians and the Summerians - ALL which predate Judaism. The creation myth story of Adam and Eve is from the Summerians. The Noahs Ark story is from the Summerians as well. They were freely adapted by the Jews and made into their own stories. But they started in other religions that predated Judaism by hundreds and thousands of years. So no .. he doesn't have it backwards. He's got the time line correct. IF there was an Abraham, his children may have gone down into India .. but the religion that was there predates them by hundreds and thousands of years.
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Post by ispyi on Mar 19, 2014 2:19:34 GMT -5
Girl....he was going to murder his child on the orders of 'voices' that he heard. That's murder. Its so much better than that. Isaac was 36 years old at the time of the binding. Abraham only told his son that he was to be the sacrifice at the last moment. Isaac understood and asked to be bound because he wanted to be a perfect sacrifice. It is profoundly difficult to understand the mindset of these people. To label them as people who "heard voices" only serves to begin the dialogue in a negative tone. Besides "hearing voices" he taught the , readin', ritin', and 'rithmetic to the illiterate masses at the Dawn of Civilization. And the only reason you can read right now may just be because of him.
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Post by ispyi on Mar 19, 2014 2:20:23 GMT -5
Look at the religion of the Vedics and the Zoroastrians (from 2000 bc). And look at the Summerian religion which (from 4000 bc) Then look at the fact that the story of Abraham wasn't written until around the year 500 BC and that Judaism was built upon that story. The similarities of the Jewish faith can be seen evolving from the Vedics and the Zoroastrians and the Summerians - ALL which predate Judaism. The creation myth story of Adam and Eve is from the Summerians. The Noahs Ark story is from the Summerians as well. They were freely adapted by the Jews and made into their own stories. But they started in other religions that predated Judaism by hundreds and thousands of years. So no .. he doesn't have it backwards. He's got the time line correct. IF there was an Abraham, his children may have gone down into India .. but the religion that was there predates them by hundreds and thousands of years. Except that Judaism is almost OCD about recording bloodlines. In the OT every player can have their ancestry placed back to Adam. Genesis goes from Adam, at the Dawn of Ancient Civilization, to Joseph in in around the 18th Dynasty of ancient Egypt. There's your few thousand years right there. In reality the whole book is just a thread of these particular characters through history which where a "Light Unto Mankind".
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Post by specopsgirls on Mar 19, 2014 2:28:41 GMT -5
The Code of Hammurabbi exists. It dates to 1772 BC. Hammurabbi enacted it. So? The Code of Hammurabi doesn't confirm that Abraham existed. It is a set of laws to live by that were commonly seen throughout that part of the world. And the Code of Hammurabbi predates Exodus when Moses supposedly got the 10 commandments so that is why the Old Testament has some similarities .. it borrowed from the Code of Hammurabbi. And the code of Hammurabbi and the OT both borrowed from the Summerians for the creation myth and noahs ark stories. So of course some of it will be similar. Again ... so? The ONLY place Abraham is talked about is the Old Testament ... and then the Muslims talk about him because they borrowed off the Old Testament. There is no historical or archeological evidence outside the OT that Abraham existed. And that OT story was written 1500 years after Abraham supposedly existed.
How do you account for the errors in the story of Abraham? Like him going in to Dan with his troops .. when Dan didn't even exist at that time??
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Post by specopsgirls on Mar 19, 2014 2:29:42 GMT -5
That's downright silly. And The dude heard 'voices' and tried to kill his kid. IF he even existed at all. Spin it any way you want. That's crazy and that's murder.
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Post by specopsgirls on Mar 19, 2014 2:30:17 GMT -5
Except that they HAD to get it wrong because the world isn't 6,000 years old. And that's what the bloodline recordings claim. The world is 6,000 years old. Not to mention the fact, that once again, there is still no proof that Abraham existed. A debunked bloodline list (age of the world debunks it) in the Old Testament doesn't prove he existed.
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Post by silencer on Mar 19, 2014 3:31:40 GMT -5
If, as you say, Abraham was Hammurabbi then why wasn't he called Hammurabbi and all his good deeds you mention given. Seems a far better originator than the Biblical Abraham who nearly made a blood sacrifice of his own son. Most people like to criticise Pagans for that kind of behaviour.
There is no historical Abraham, he is like the beginning of the Bible, begged, borrowed or stolen from other religions in order to unite a bedraggled group into a separate people and culture.
There are a number of questions about Abraham, one open question is whether Abraham was circumcised, if not was he Jewish? Why did he travel and who was Sarah? Some have said she was also his sister - In Egypt his behaviour was somewhat strange especially as another pointed out that she must have been an old woman and Pharoah, would have been unlikely to have looked on her with lust, having the pick of a huge number of wives for his entertainment.
Biblical Abraham is a story most of us hear as children. Religion is pumped into kids so that during their formative years they accept this knowledge without questioning it. Once one gets older one doesn't think about it, its still just accepted. Its only comparatively recently that people have questioned their religious conditioning/indoctrination and looked at these impossible stories they believed as children. You would also need to be very strange to wander for some 40 years in the desert with the stars to navigatge by.
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Post by judgementday on Mar 19, 2014 4:52:07 GMT -5
where are you getting this from?
Genesis Chapter 22:5 lad a 36 years old man
Genesis Chapter 22:8 Abraham lied and nowhere does it say Abraham told Isaac it just says he 'bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar
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Post by Apollo_18 on Mar 19, 2014 8:57:13 GMT -5
Again ... so? The ONLY place Abraham is talked about is the Old Testament ... and then the Muslims talk about him because they borrowed off the Old Testament. There is no historical or archeological evidence outside the OT that Abraham existed. And that OT story was written 1500 years after Abraham supposedly existed. How do you account for the errors in the story of Abraham? Like him going in to Dan with his troops .. when Dan didn't even exist at that time?? Read Above in this thread about Brahmin and Sarasvati? so yea, and the Hammurabbi connection. In the Jewish tradition Abraham taught the Torah before it was put to writing by Moses. Abraham was taught by Shem, son of Noah, and Eber son of Shem. Noah learned from Methusaleh, he from Lemech and So on till Adam. Torah is a fluid thing, which takes the shape of its container and is affected by the environment, time and context and vice-versa. Only when it was transmitted through the lense and experience of Moses and his Generation was it crystalized into a form that would encompass all human experience.
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Post by Apollo_18 on Mar 19, 2014 8:58:01 GMT -5
where are you getting this from? Genesis Chapter 22:5 lad a 36 years old man Genesis Chapter 22:8 Abraham lied and nowhere does it say Abraham told Isaac it just says he 'bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar 6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, “Father?” “Yes, my son?” Abraham replied. “The fire and wood are here,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?” 22.8 Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” And the two of them went on together. He told him in a non shocking way as to not make Isaac lose his resolve. Abraham was 136 years old at this point, so yes a 36 year old is a lad.
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