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Post by Olivia on Mar 20, 2014 3:08:46 GMT -5
Genesis says Adam was the first human and he was made by God on the 6th day. Of course, Adam and Eve are a creation myth and never really existed.
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Post by spygirl on Mar 20, 2014 3:34:33 GMT -5
Just wanted to comment on how utterly ridiculous all these," da did he rewy exthist ?" threads are. And that they are. In four thousand years it will be easy to show OP didn't exist either.
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Post by missionximpossible on Mar 20, 2014 5:27:56 GMT -5
So we've got these choices ... - Whoever wrote the bible and quoted Jesus got it wrong. - Jesus Himself got it wrong, which means He isn't God as He claimed. - Jesus got it right that Abraham actually existed, and Jesus God-head isn't in question. - Jesus insinuated something that wasn't true, that Abraham existed, to make a point on a level that the Jews could understand. Something you'd not expect from God .. but then again, God allows all sorts of errors in religion to exist and He does nothing to fix it ... so who knows ... The story in the bible is flat out wrong. There COULD have been someone named Abraham, but the story in scripture is historically wrong. There is no collaborating evidence to support scripture so that calls Abraham existing into serious question. The problem with the first and last options is that Jesus referred to Abraham on a number of occasions, so he most likely did cite some person named Abraham whom Jesus existed before and who was in Sheol in the company of the righteous. The problem with just arbitrarily dismissing parts of the Hebrew Bible as being complete fabrications is that there is a ripple effect that eventually destroys the New Testament -- if one concludes that Moses was a fictional character, for example, who did Peter, James and John see with Christ at the Transfiguration? Were they lying about the experience? Did Christ lie to them and say it was Moses when he knew that Moses never existed? For that reason, I take the perspective that, while the Old Testament, as a whole, isn't meant to be taken literally, parts of it can, and it does reflect the real persons and history of the Israelites, in some fashion.
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Post by specopsgirls on Mar 20, 2014 7:23:54 GMT -5
Not for lack of trying. He was all set to ... but then the 'voices' stopped him. Yes, but supposedly the God of Abraham was the 'true God' and wouldn't do such a thing. And yet ... this God supposedly tells Abraham to commit murder.
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Post by specopsgirls on Mar 20, 2014 7:25:32 GMT -5
If the truth leads in that direction ... then it leads in that direction. Wouldn't you rather know the truth of something? Even if that truth leads you to discover your religious views are based on something that didn't happen? I'd want to know the truth ... rather than base my lifes beliefs on lies.
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Post by holygrail on Mar 20, 2014 7:37:19 GMT -5
Jesus refers to Jonah too. Do you really think that a man lived inside the belly of a big fish for 3 days?
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Post by bonesmason on Mar 20, 2014 9:08:49 GMT -5
What's so hard to believe about that? We are talk'in God stuff here right ?
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Post by maverick on Mar 21, 2014 0:10:02 GMT -5
The truth of whether someone named Abraham existed? I don't believe that is demonstrable, either way -- as Randy pointed out, in 4,000 years no one will be able to prove that you or I existed, and yet here we are.
If Jesus is God, then, yes, I have faith that Abraham and Moses (and Jonah, windword ,) existed, whether all of the facts are what they are portrayed to be in the Hebrew Bible or not.
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Post by specopsgirls on Mar 21, 2014 0:22:06 GMT -5
Jesus referred to Jonah (not the person but 'the sign of Jonah'), Noah (not Noah himself but Jesus said 'In Noah's Day ...' ) , Abraham, the Prophet Daniel, and Moses. Also this ... Luke 24:27 "then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.:
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Post by specopsgirls on Mar 21, 2014 0:22:27 GMT -5
Okay .... it's all good .... I"m not going to argue with your thoughts on this.
I"m just not seeing how there is any evidence that Abraham existed. He supposedly existed 2000 BC. But the story wasn't written down until 1500 years later. That's a lot of time to go by before getting the story down. A lot can change. A lot can get wrong. A lot can be embellished on.
The strongest evidence that Abraham existed is Jesus words. So a person has to believe that Jesus can't be wrong, and has to believe that scripture can't get it wrong, in order to use Jesus as a source.
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