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Post by lucky4u on Mar 10, 2014 7:10:52 GMT -5
No... that is called reading into something that isn't there.... Actually the word for Hades in Hebrew is Hell in Greek, and that is how the word is translated in the King James Version of the Bible. You are correct that Hellfire dogma is pagan and false. And there are better words to translate the word into English. For example, instead of hell, or hades it could be translated "tomb" or "common grave" much better. And, after reasoning this little bit with you, I can see how you reason. I respect it, as you have the right to reason the way you do. But I have come to the conclusions I have not because someone spoon-fed them to me, or because of what someone else told me. But all of the arguments you have given me, I have seen a hundred times over. And I have seen many more. I was hoping you would give me something I was not familiar with. I really enjoy when that happens. Unfortunately it is rare. I will leave you be. One reasoning should have been enough with you, but you are not reasoning. And now I understand where your heart is.
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Post by clueless on Mar 10, 2014 7:31:35 GMT -5
Just my thoughts. I'm not, per say, attacking the bible but I really think it should be changed.
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Post by pimpsmackyou on Mar 10, 2014 9:53:29 GMT -5
once you understand that geneological theme you can understand all of the otherwise inexplicable things that happened in the OT. you can understand the masacres and other seemingly hateful and evil things in the OT were necessary and in most cases were made necessary by the proto-hebrews and hebrews failing to follow Gods instruction. add to that the other theme of the covenants and how they led to the validity of the crucifixion as the means of salvation. that God gave the laws and the ritual laws and set examples when people failed to follow them to make the law binding even to him so that eventually he could save his children on a technicality of his very own law that he could not violate because of his perfection.
a third thing people seem to not realize is that our mortal view of good and evil and gradients of good and evil are not shared from the spiritual plane. to wit; your death here is nothing to your soul when it is immortal in potential. a dead person here continues to exist as a spirit. whether an infant taken by accident or illness or crime. or an old man or an able bodied man or woman or a crone. so to God and those already in the spiritual realm a death here is barely worth noting. We cannot see it because we are spiritually blind. so when God commits an act against a mortal on earth in the old testament it is nothing of consequence to the victim or God. actually anyone who died prior to the crucifixion of Christ has a better chance of getting into heaven than we who live after the crucifixion do. it only is of concern to the living. and God is not behind every accident, natural disaster illness or calamity on earth. he does not interact except with his elect until the end of this age. Once Christ's mission was complete God had no need to continue an active role in daily events to the extent he had to in the Old Testament. We are currently in an age of mercy. he may intervene if you ask him to but he will not otherwise; again except for the elect who are parts of his plans for the end times. he is probably leading Putin forth again after holding Russia back for a time. and Putin will not be the only one he is placing in their final positions prior to the commencement of the end times.
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Post by paranormalskits on Mar 10, 2014 10:06:50 GMT -5
Couldn't show me where in this ol bible of yours we see Jesus as the first creation of God... Talk about butchering the bible.
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Post by holygrail on Mar 10, 2014 10:23:48 GMT -5
No... that is called reading into something that isn't there.... Actually the word for Hades in Hebrew is Hell in Greek, and that is how the word is translated in the King James Version of the Bible. You are correct that Hellfire dogma is pagan and false. And there are better words to translate the word into English. For example, instead of hell, or hades it could be translated "tomb" or "common grave" much better. And, after reasoning this little bit with you, I can see how you reason. I respect it, as you have the right to reason the way you do. But I have come to the conclusions I have not because someone spoon-fed them to me, or because of what someone else told me. But all of the arguments you have given me, I have seen a hundred times over. And I have seen many more. I was hoping you would give me something I was not familiar with. I really enjoy when that happens. Unfortunately it is rare. I will leave you be. One reasoning should have been enough with you, but you are not reasoning. And now I understand where your heart is. No my friend you have no idea where my heart is... again, if you look past your assumptions of me you may see the truth. Hades, is considered a place where the dead dwell... Not to be confused with Hell which is a complete myth fabricated by the fathers of the church to scare people into conversion...You can't twist words to mean something more to your liking or to fit your theology.... Hades in Hebrew is Sheol... or at least that is the parallel, and in greek it is akin to Tartarus... different places, which hold different understandings to each belief system... none of which is equivalent to Dante's hell as Christians love to preach about Probably a good idea to give up anyways though... I've covered maybe 10 at the most and theres literally hundreds of contradictions... Though you might see where your heart lies by looking in a mirror... assuming much of others... yet patting yourself on the back as being holier then thou... *shakes head*
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Post by sexykiller on Mar 10, 2014 10:37:17 GMT -5
when you see a contradiction it is usually an error in your understanding. its like the creation narrative. a skeptic notes that the day of creation of man is different and then he dances with glee because he has found a contradiction. because seeing a contradiction is what he desires as a weapon against the faithful (if the faithful are ignorant of the word to the extent they can be beguiled by a persuasive opponent of the word.)
but before your victory dance exhausts you skeptic; note that in the original manuscripts the two Adams have a difference in articles and as used denote the creation of mankind on day 6 and Adam the man on day 8.
once you know this you also know that mankind predated Adam by at least two epochs of time. where Cain found a wife is no conflict nor is it incest. unfortunately for some bigots the two separate creations of man are also not occasions for racism either because God declared both good. in fact He declared the 6th day creation "very good."
but go ahead and continue to call it a conflict. in order to be a fundamentalist you have to be able to read the fundamentals and not use as a basis misinterpretations of the bible or out of context abuse of the text.
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Post by lucky4u on Mar 10, 2014 10:48:20 GMT -5
Couldn't show me where in this ol bible of yours we see Jesus as the first creation of God... Talk about butchering the bible. (Colossians 1:15) 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
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Post by ispyi on Mar 10, 2014 11:02:59 GMT -5
That's an interesting statement considering "the faithful" or at least the ones who take the bible as the "litteral" word of God... meaning it is without error, are usually the most bigoted, self centered, intolerant people you will ever meet... Have you ever heard the saying "if you're using the bible to hurt people, You're using it wrong"
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Post by wonderqueen on Mar 10, 2014 11:19:22 GMT -5
actually the bible is heavy and suitable for hand to hand combat.
look there are plenty of knucklehead christians. not as many though as christian haters portray it but yeah there are idiots in the ranks. like that pin head that took a verse out of context and founded a snake handling cult. or that phelps family of ghouls. but in large part Christians are nice people even when they do not understand the bible perfectly themselves.
the word is without error. however if you conflate the word with translations of the word then yes there are errors in it. but more often the "errors" are out of context reductio ad absurdem logical fallacy attacks by people who do not care that they have ignored the proper context and proper grammatical diagramming of the sentences. known as dividing the word. and even in the case where there are genuine translation problems (and there are a few doozies) there are tools to get around that. concordances, interlinear bibles, copies of the original manuscripts in the original languages, and companion bibles and scholarly commentaries and books explaining Hebraisms and ancient figures of speech and biblical symbolism and numerology.
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Post by area51 on Mar 10, 2014 11:38:31 GMT -5
best thing I've heard so far... a star for you lol
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