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Post by yourpresident on Mar 10, 2014 11:45:12 GMT -5
Nope a translation error that creates an error or ambiguity in a modern translation does not equal a error in the original MSS. and you know or should know that the manuscripts used to compile the KJV are still in the british museum. that means that these original texts are available to check on the good editors of the KJV and other version's editors.
i do not know why you would make a semantical argument about original manuscripts when you know what are referred to as original manuscripts pertain to the creation of the kjv.
furthermore in the case of the old testament because of the nature of hebrew every line has a checksum. it cannot be edited or typo'ed without it showing up as a checksum error.
and of course things like ancient fragmentary copies of isaiah show practically no divergence from our modern copies of it.
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Post by voltaire on Mar 10, 2014 11:54:57 GMT -5
Tell yourself whatever you like man...
Its nothing more then dangerous to believe the bible has no errors... Such a belief promotes the idea that its "all true, the word of God" which means every bit should be followed in accordance to its own rules...
And nothing good comes from that theology... Remember what Jesus said.... Know a tree by its fruits
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Post by flipthecoin on Mar 10, 2014 12:43:21 GMT -5
there are translation errors where the editors of the kjv picked the wrong meaning for a hebrew word accidentally. Some of these are quite important and problematic. and i could write books of posts on what these errors were and what they mean to christianity and it's critics. And there is at least one case where apparently church politics caused them to create a mistranslation in the new testament. the only mention of easter in the new testament is the passage where they had to talk to the roman authorities and the roman's were celebrating the pagan holiday of easter necessitating them to take that holiday into account in thier plans. all other verses where easter appears in the KJV are "errors" where the editors translated the work paskah as easter when it really means passover in hebrew. clearly they had the converted pagans in mind when they made that "error." but again a translation error is not the same thing as an error in the source texts.
another possible "error" in the translation of the new testament have to do with the use of hell, sheol, hades and gehenom and the meaning of certain hebraisms concerning the fate of those consigned to hell. the upshot is either the editors deliberately tried to portray a flawed perception of hell and damnation or through an incredible line of coincidental errors they made hell in to psychotic's dream of eternal torment and pain for those consigned to hell. it certainly would help to keep the flock in line. but it turns christians into approvers for something so malicious and evil that it shocks the conscious that any would approve of others being assigned that fate especially kin or loved ones.
the OT says what happens to the devil when he is thrown into hell. he is not writhing on the barbie on the front porch of heaven in torment. he is turned to ashes from within and even the memory that he existed is gone from everyone's mind. and if you follow the word "perish" through the bible "perish" is a bit more final than being alive and in torment on the front porch of heaven while your psychotic kin and friends and lovers clap with joy and cackle with evil glee forever as you burn.
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Post by augustusmasonicus on Mar 10, 2014 12:54:03 GMT -5
Alright one more time... Do you know what the Passover is... im sure you must... In Mark they eat the Passover meal, Jesus does the whole "this is my blood, this is my flesh" passage... and he is executed on the next day at the third hour... Mark 1 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death. .... 12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover? 13 And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him. 14 And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? 15 And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us. 16 And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. www.biblegateway.com... and the next day...he was put to death on the third hour... Mark 15:25 read the entire passage for context.... But in John... Jesus is executed the day before the Passover.... John 19 13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. 14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! No companion bibles and scholarly commentaries and books explaining Hebraisms and ancient figures of speech and biblical symbolism or numerology can change the day on which Jesus was crucified... Its not a translation issue... and you can't scream context like all Christians do... its just an error...
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TheMarkFrost
Administrator
Uncovering The Inconvenient Truth
Posts: 241
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Post by TheMarkFrost on Mar 10, 2014 13:04:12 GMT -5
Personally i have not delved deeply into the differences between the four gospels too much because each was written from the memories of one of the disciple/ne-apostles. the nicean and other councils decided to include all of the gospels as divinely inspired but clearly as you said there are differences. but then if there weren't there would be very little reason to include them all. but understand this divine inspiration of the authors of the books does not mean that the nice an council was without error when determining canon.
and because the errors or maybe misunderstandings do not appear to be concerning the actual words of the Christ. if you want to go into the differences there are several others too. such as the location of certain sermons differ. and there are others. the question is on deeper study is there a way to reconcile them and do they significantly alter the truth preached by Christ?
you also need to understand that the bible itself said in the final days there will be a famine not for bread but for the very word of God. the transnational errors i hinted at actually do imperil proper understanding of the word of God to a far greater magnitude than an incorrectly transcribed or related date. like the sequence of the final days. you get that one wrong and you have a 95 percent chance of being seduced by the anti-christ.
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Post by Apollo_18 on Mar 10, 2014 13:23:08 GMT -5
Perhaps you misunderstand my intention here... I stated just after joining this thread that by seeing the errors in the book one "might" see the actual inerrant message...
As I've said before, the belief that the bible has no errors is dangerous... so much more then just a "stumbling block" so to speak...
This belief leads to judgement of other is nothing else... You've even pointed out the fact that there are plenty of "knucklehead" Christians, who of course are the nutbags they are because of said belief...
Straight to the point, anyone who tells you the bible or any translation of is "without error", either doesn't know any better, or is selling something...
Though... the teaching of Jesus is simple, and without error...
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Post by monalisa on Mar 10, 2014 13:39:07 GMT -5
you know i am going to read it again and get back to you but it just occurred to me that there were two holidays in play at the time of the trial and crucifixion as i mentioned in the post before last. the issue may come from the fact that the kjv editors conflated the two perhaps deliberately for political reasons as i mentioned earlier. before going into the study of it i will hypothesize that passover and easter occurred a day or two apart and things pertaining to interactions with the romans had to take the pagan holiday into account. as i mentioned the original manuscripts are available and the hypothesis can be checked easily enough. if it is an editing problem it will not appear in the original manuscripts.
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Post by monalisa on Mar 10, 2014 13:39:25 GMT -5
I'll have to delve into it later. not up to it at the moment.
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Post by bond009 on Mar 10, 2014 13:50:50 GMT -5
Theres nothing to delve into man...
the bible isn't one book, its a stack of them all smashed together over hundreds of years... depending on which you prefer they have varying number of books...
Theres errors... its a hard fact...
but read the sermon on the mount... or Luke 6
and find the error...
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Post by bond009 on Mar 10, 2014 13:52:33 GMT -5
You do know the Nicean council didn't determine the canon of the bible... Right??
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